I agree direct data incorporation is preferable but not always possible;
the few respondents who discussed scanners preferred the HP ScanJet IIcx
or IIp. The former is the newer model and has color capability, is TWAIN
compatible, has a SCSI interface and is apparently easy to use and install.
We also found the Envisions ENV line to be equivalent to the HPs for NMR
data.
Some of the appended replies are from vendors, so "caveat emptor"!
Jeff de Ropp
UCD NMR Facility
jsderopp@ucdavis.edu
Phone: 916-752-7677
FAX: 916-752-3516
-------------------------------------------------
>From gardner@cadmium.csb.yale.eduTue Jan 10 16:11:50 1995
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 18:54:36 EST
From: Kevin Gardner <gardner@cadmium.csb.yale.edu>
To: jsderopp@ucdavis.edu
Subject: Re: Scanners
Hi Jeff:
Any chance you can export your data in Postscript format
or to a data processing program that can generate Postscript? That
route has worked out quite cleanly for us (using Felix for data
processing and Adobe Illustrator for annotation/beautification)
for doing what you're looking for. Good luck,
Kevin
-- ************************************************************************* Kevin Gardner Yale University Dept. of Molecular Biophysics and Biochemistry Internet: gardner@zinc.csb.yale.edu Bitnet: gardner@yalemed***I support the boycott of companies using mass Internet advertising***
>From rshoe@tinman.unl.eduTue Jan 10 16:12:18 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 17:33:51 CST From: "R.Shoe" <rshoe@tinman.unl.edu> To: jsderopp@ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: Scanners
Jeff,
I have a couple of different scanners, and have been generally disappointed with the results of scanning NMR data into documents. The problem, of course, is that regardless of the resolution, the image is pixxelated, and upon resizing, becomes distorted in all kinds of nasty ways!
For One-D data, I have found that a good windows-based software package (i.e. Felix-PC--now owned by Varian, Nuts--Acorn, Inc, or Grams/386-- Galactic Industries) is the BEST way to get publication quality figures in documents. With any of these programs, you can simply "print" the spectrum to the clipboard, and the "paste" it into any windows-based word processor. This gives an object-oriented graphic image, which can be resized at will with no loss in image quality.
For 2D data, I use Sybyl/Triad to generate an HPGL file, which can then be imported directly into WordPerfect as an object-oriented graphic that can be resized at will, with no loss in image quality. Felix also has the capability to generate an HPGL or PostScript file, either of which can be transferred to PC or Mac for incorporation into a document.
Of course, you have to have a third party program like Sybyl/Triad or Felix to carry this out on 2D or 3D data, but the end result is MUCH better than a scanned image. If you have Felix or Sybyl at your facility, give this a try.
To be honest, I've played around with scanning a lot...we have both color and B/W scanners here. In the end, I find that using a good photocopier, and scaling the size, and using the old cut/paste technology will almost ALWAYS give a better looking result than scanning...and it ends up being less work most of the time.
Good Luck,
Richard Shoemaker, Ph.D. Phone--(402) 472-6255 Instrumentation Director, Chemistry FAX---- -9402 Research Associate Proffessor, Chemistry University of Nebraska-Lincoln
>From TECMAG@AppleLink.Apple.COMTue Jan 10 16:12:31 1995 Date: 10 Jan 95 22:13 GMT From: TECMAG@AppleLink.Apple.COM To: JSDEROPP@UCDAVIS.EDU Subject: Re: Scanners
Dear Jeff: Why don't you cut and paste the data into the slide presentation software or word processing program. This avoids the steps of printing the data out and then scanning it. MacFID and MacNMR both support cut and pasting as well as printing to a pict format. For more information, please contact me. Regards, Paul J. Kanyha >From support@acornnmr.comWed Jan 11 09:45:12 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:37:19 From: Acorn NMR Support <support@acornnmr.com> To: jsderopp@ucdavis.edu Subject: getting spectra into documents
Seems to me that, in this computer age, one really wants to do this electronically, and eliminate the paper step in the middle. Assuming that your documents are on a PC or a Mac, what makes more sense is to have your NMR data on the computer and do a simple copy, then paste into your document. The whole thing takes a matter of seconds and the quality is not degraded in the process. There are ways to do this so that you keep all the resolution that you have in the original data (ie, you are not limited to screen resolution.) We wrote an Application Note in the TAMU Newsletter describing this process. It's on the back side of our ad in the Feb. 1994 issue. You could buy a PC and software for not much more than the cost of a scanner of the quality required to get the results you want, and get a large reduction in time and hassle. I do reports for customers this way. I'd have *killed* for this capability when writing my thesis!
==================================================================== Virginia W. Miner Voice (510) 683-8595 Acorn NMR Inc. FAX (510) 683-6784 46560 Fremont Blvd., #418 Email gina@acornnmr.com Fremont, CA 94538-6491
>From rmair@stan.xx.swin.OZ.AUWed Jan 11 09:45:26 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 13:50:19 +1100 (EDT) From: Ross Mair <rmair@stan.xx.swin.OZ.AU> To: Jeffrey Deropp <jsderopp@ucdavis.edu> Cc: Ross Mair <rmair@stan.xx.swin.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Scanners
Jeff, > We are looking to purcahse a scanner with the primary aim of scanning 1D > and 2D hardcopy of NMR data into documents. Hence we are looking for > excellent "line art" type performance, while color or grayscale performance > is not very important to us. We would appreciate hearing from the NMR > community from those who have experience/advice to give in this area. Are
Working in a tight-fisted place (so tight the NMR has now been decommisioned) we worked around this problem by writing plot files to disk, and then incorporating them into documents.
We found we could redirect the HPGL command stream from a Bruker or Varian spectrometer plotting to a HP plotter straight into the COM port of a PC, where it was saved to disk as a HPGL file, which was then read into Word fro Windows or WordPerfect for Win.
Also, unix based processing systems such as Felix, VNMR and I believe UXNMR all have capabilities for writing the plot to file in either HPGL or Postscript. Again, I used HPGL to import into documents - postscript was not recognised by many applications.
I have also seen reports (TAMU newsletters over the last 2-3 years) of the HPGL or postscript files then being imported into graphics packages such as Corel and similar Macintosh programs for further annotation. The Mac users I think also saved the file then in PICT format for further use in Mac applications that didn't recognise HPGL.
In all cases, using a quality laser printer, the imported file proved just as high resolution and quality as the original plot. I detected no loss of quality from either method - indeed quality was sometimes better than obtained from the HP Plotter. I would imagine such method would also prove less space-consuming on hard disks, than the images a scanner may produce.
Hope that helps in some way,
Ross Mair
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ross Mair Email: rmair@stan.xx.swin.oz.au NMR Lab Snail: Mail 41, Swinburne University, Applied Chemistry Dept PO Box 218, Hawthorn, 3122. Swinburne University of Technology Fax: +61-3-8190834 Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia Voice: +61-3-2148843 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From PaulC149@aol.comThu Jan 12 16:41:31 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 19:11:44 -0500 From: PaulC149@aol.com To: jsderopp@ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: Scanners
I have quite a bit of experience with desktop publishing and I use scanning to get spectra into Wilmad publications from time to time. To get B&W images into a computer, you'll be using a mode for 'line-art.' The important characteristic for good line-art scanning is resolution (dpi or lpi). Bit depth has no role in such scanning. So get the highest resolution scanner money can buy.
I have a question for you, though. If you are producing spectra from an NMR, first it must be plotted or printed. Wouldn't it make more sense to translate the digital file format your spectrometer generates into the publishing format rather than going from digital to analog (to paper) and then back to digital (scanning) again? I'm aware of many people who use this route, although I'm not familiar with the translations that are needed. Most NMR software can produce standard graphics file formats like PICT, TIFF, eps, bmp, etc., I think. Have you look into this approach?
Regards:
Paul Cope Wilmad Glass
>From jralph@facstaff.wisc.eduWed Jan 11 09:45:54 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:01:27 -0500 From: John Ralph <jralph@facstaff.wisc.edu> To: Jeffrey Deropp <jsderopp@ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: Scanners
Hi Jeff:
>We are looking to purcahse a scanner with the primary aim of scanning 1D >and 2D hardcopy of NMR data into documents. Hence we are looking for >excellent "line art" type performance, while color or grayscale performance >is not very important to us. We would appreciate hearing from the NMR >community from those who have experience/advice to give in this area. Are >there particular scanner models that people can recommend? Is black >& white only sufficient or should we purchase color capability also? Any >advice/suggestions for the novice? >Please send responses to me and I will post a summary.
I think this is a lousy way to go. You will never get satisfactory results, even if you subsequently use 'tracing' features of graphics programs. You should simply capture the hpgl file from you NMR machine (or postscript) and convert/use that for your documents. That way, the plots will have the same resolution as your nmr plotter or laser printer and you can re-size them, change font etc on axes, without problems. For publications you usually need something much better than you will get with any scanner.
TAMU news has addressed issues of getting verious formats onto Mac or DOS/Windoze machines and I strongly suggest you go this route!
Cheers
--------------------------------------------------- John Ralph U.S. Dairy Forage Research Center, USDA-ARS 1925 Linden Drive West, Madison WI 53706 and Dept. of Forestry, U. Wisconsin, Madison WI 53706 FAX 608-264-5275, Phone 608-264-5407 PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS (old will still work for a year but . . . ) E-Mail: jralph@facstaff.wisc.edu ---------------------------------------------------
>From mainzv@aries.scs.uiuc.eduWed Jan 11 09:46:12 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:27:15 -0600 (CST) From: Vera Mainz <mainzv@aries.scs.uiuc.edu> To: Jeffrey Deropp <jsderopp@ucdavis.edu> Subject: Re: Scanners
Jeff - I have no experience with scanners, but I can tell you that the NUTS program (Acorn NMR - support@acornnmr.com) imports all data and exports windows metafiles that can be imported into word, wordperfect, coreldraw, etc. and are perfect! High-resolution, etc. The first copy of the program costs $750, and goes down from there, which is about what a scanner would cost? Let me know if you want more info. Vera
>From Colman@caere.comFri Jan 13 13:02:59 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 10:57:42 PST From: Colman <Colman@caere.com> To: Patrick Wheeler <Patrick_Wheeler@isisph.com>, jsderopp@ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: Scanners
Jeff, I got this message from Patrick Wheeler at ISIS in San Diego.
Caere Corp. makes OCR software, so we have just about every make of scanner available in our Q.A. department. The guys here who test the scanners recommended HP scanners in general. For 300 DPI, Grayscale try the Scanjet IIP. If you need higher rez scans you will end up buying color anyhow, so they suggested the Scanjet IIC, which runs a true 400DPI. Most other vendors use interpolation to bump the resolution up to 400 or 600 DPI. I have no idea what the NMR data looks like, but if your requirement is recognizing text or special, recurring characters and placing them in word-processed documents then you might also find Caere's OCR products (Omnipage, OmniPage Professional) useful. They are optimized for HP's scanners using Accupage, and will retain the formatting of the original document when you drop the scanned text into your desired application. And OCR accuracy is the highest of all the leading desktop OCR products.
Good luck! --------------------------------------
ALSO, Erin Hohmann of Bruker sent a Fax to me recommending the HP ScanJet IIcx/IIp. -Jeff de R.